Author Topic: Season Four Discussion (Read 2571 times)

Monster Zero · « **on:** March 16, 2009, 09:00:25 PM »

Have your say about the penultimate season of Slayer Academy...

Alden Caele · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2009, 05:43:24 PM »

Final webisode isn't up here.

whedonversefan · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2009, 03:39:28 AM »

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Alden Caele · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:37:23 AM »

Yay! You're the first one to finish the 'sodes, Scott, and we (myself in particular) are extremely grateful for your dedication and interest. Onto the review...

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Very interesting way to end the websiodes-with Team Webisode literally being absorbed into the main cast. Fran now has Skye's respect, Mela is now Delaney's apprentice [...] and Clarissa is no longer the shallow twit [...] but a woman capable of making the really tough decisions.

Indeed, these little girls really have grown into Slayers by the end of DW, haven't they? Around the 'Exit'/'Go' two-parter I blocked out exactly what each character's arc for the serial would be, and their development here squares with that. You'll see more of this integration in season five, though I won't say exactly where we've placed the pawns.

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Delaney as a teacher should be interesting indeed...

I've been excited about this since the idea occurred, for obvious reasons, and you'll definitely see that dynamic in S5. As Delaney's slowly morphing into a co-lead with Sofia and Skye, her story has become more important, and Mela is a big part of that. If you take a peek back at 'Godsend' you'll see hints of this development there, though we didn't concretely spell it out.

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Just having to fight Faith scarred Buffy big time. I can only imagine how what Clarissa has to do here would have traumatised Buffy [...] although we have seen in the regular season finale that [Clarissa] hasn't quite lost all of her shallowness

This was a horrible ordeal for the girl, one that she almost certainly shouldn't have survived, and the only way she can deal with it is by being herself, warts and all. Of course, for her to ignore the fact that she killed a bunch of Slayers is probably pretty unhealthy...

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It's like the webisodes have been the story of their audition for the big series...and they've passed the audition with flying colors. Very nice

I'm glad to hear you think so! Indeed, they didn't seem too promising in the beginning (back when the girls were silent Clarissa drones), but they each stepped up and became strong characters. I'm quite proud of each of them, actually. It was often a hard road, and they survived. (Except Celine, who snapped and went evil and went dead, but can't win em all.)

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I only hope they all make it throught Season 5...

The only answer I can give you is maniacal laughter, my friend. Muahahahaha....

whedonversefan · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2009, 05:39:28 AM »

Thanks

Best wishes,

Scott

Dino · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2009, 12:32:34 AM »

Choices.

The finale of a very long series of shorts. So did it really stack up much after all that?

I wish I could say yes, but it did feel anti-climatic.

With the group of slayers deciding to take on Reyes once and for all in a "'let's storm their base" attack, the ferocity of some of the Slayers seemed a bit of a surprise.

Fran's still showing us that she feels tortured, and that maybe because of her recently revealed sexuality.

Mela's proving to be a force to be reckoned with, but it is only revealed later on, that she is indeed a child of one of the members of Coven di Fuoco. Interesting little bit of information there.

Clarissa turned out to be different as she let the Slayer within her take over, and all that was left was just bodies...

The fight scene with Reyes could have gone better. It became clear that despite Mela having feelings for Fran - she'd have no hesitation in watching Fran die, just so she could exact revenge on Reyes. Reyes just saw this as a I'm going to die anyway. Personally I would've killed Fran - it would have made Mela that much more darker - considering the reveal later on.

It seemed fitting that the experienced Slayers: Skye, Erika and Delaney would show up to clean things up, and it just went to show how inexperienced Fran and her group of Slayers really were.

Alden, you know I was never a great fan of the webisodes, they just didn't do it for me. And although they were pretty much dedicated to the Death Willow storyarc, it really didn't touch much at all with the current situation of the Slayer Academy episodes. Yeah I get it, that these webisodes took place before Season 4 - but where it should have been a more convenient bridge turned out to be just another story that if wasn't told, wouldn't have made a great impact on Season 4.

If I was to give a grade for the entire series of webisodes (And I recall I didn't rate any of these), I'd have to give it a:

6.5/10.

Reasonings were that the storyarc was way too long, and despite my misgivings contained characters that I really had no love for - so there was no real connection to the story.

But that doesn't mean the webisodes was a complete failure. Far from it. I just think a more shorter run (13 episodes) and shorts less than 10 pages should be more appropriate.

After all - they are meant to be shorts. Not half-hour episodes - like some of them were.

Alden Caele · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2009, 04:19:48 AM »

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Reasonings were that the storyarc was way too long, and despite my misgivings contained characters that I really had no love for - so there was no real connection to the story.

That's the thing I've suspected all along: This story arc only mattered if you cared about the characters. This arc was wholly about the characters and how they embodied important themes. If you weren't engaged, and this is my fault for not pulling you in better, then the story arc would be pointless.

However, I will challenge that

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[Where] it should have been a more convenient bridge turned out to be just another story that if wasn't told, wouldn't have made a great impact on Season 4.

Webisodes, in their nature, shouldn't contain vital plot information, as it's in their nature to be side stories. In fact, just in what we did may have broken that rule, considering some of the things that come into play next season. So, just about any story allowed to us couldn't really effect the greater story. The question became, how could these webisodes matter then?

So, the choice that was made to connect it to the main series thematically: Though Fran's misadventures don't seem to effect the series proper in big ways, they explore a lot of thematic ground that the series just didn't have a chance to. Through Fran, Clarissa, Mela and Karen we could explore the quieter side of the Slayer life, filled with doubt and questions and struggles with Slayer morality. Questions that the A/B Squads don't often have time or will to deal with, as they're constantly on the move.

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But that doesn't mean the webisodes was a complete failure. Far from it. I just think a more shorter run (13 episodes) and shorts less than 10 pages should be more appropriate.

After all - they are meant to be shorts. Not half-hour episodes - like some of them were.

Funny enough, the DW serial was only 13 webisodes. The other 9 were standalones like Every Hero and Hope, unless you're counting the early 'Princess'/'Confrontation' pair. However, there was also a distinct lack of purpose early on as we didn't really 'get' the characters until the Exit/Go pair had already aired, and extensive planning only happened after 'Product'/'Kaboom'. The length of many was indeed too long, packed with moments that only mattered if you thought about their meaning beyond a beat in the story or, often, foreshadowing something later. It seems pointless to have anything less than 10 pages (why bother reading?), but 15 should have definitely been our cap and oftentimes it wasn't.

A major issue here was planning - nobody sat down at the the beginning of the year and explicitly outlined our plan with the webisodes. By the time we did, we'd lost a lot of interest. Though Lee hasn't approved it yet, some of the staff have put together a tentative outline for S5's webisodes that would be more relevant, more brief, and hopefully better received. Now, onto the actual webisode.

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Fran's still showing us that she feels tortured, and that maybe because of her recently revealed sexuality.

Nah, I'll nip this one in the bud. Fran's doubt about Slaying have nothing to do with her sexuality - as she mentioned in 'Weapons', a lifestyle of killing is getting to her.

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Mela's proving to be a force to be reckoned with, but it is only revealed later on, that she is indeed a child of one of the members of Coven di Fuoco. Interesting little bit of information there.

Indeed, this is one thing I'd been excited to finally reveal. We hinted at it back in Blood, but it needed to be outright said. This is important. Keep an eye on it.

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Clarissa turned out to be different as she let the Slayer within her take over, and all that was left was just bodies...

An abandoned story arc with Debbie would have involved exploring this, the line between girl and demon within the Slayer. Though we never told that story, this was my chance to at least touch on this. Expect this to effect Clarissa in the future, even if she hides it well.

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The fight scene with Reyes could have gone better. It became clear that despite Mela having feelings for Fran - she'd have no hesitation in watching Fran die, just so she could exact revenge on Reyes. Reyes just saw this as a I'm going to die anyway. Personally I would've killed Fran - it would have made Mela that much more darker - considering the reveal later on.

Mela's in a bad place here, but she's not that far gone. Here she does what those in the biz call a bluff.

That said, Reyes made a last gambit that Mela wouldn't kill him if he came peacefully. It doesn't reflect well on Mela's state of mind that she did.

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It seemed fitting that the experienced Slayers: Skye, Erika and Delaney would show up to clean things up, and it just went to show how inexperienced Fran and her group of Slayers really were.

Exactly. The conventional way to play this would have seen our girls win, go back to the Academy and get promotions. But what really happens when girls do off-the-book missions? Sure, they might get the bad guy, but they also get themselves injured or killed and often have to get their butts rescued.

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Alden, you know I was never a great fan of the webisodes, they just didn't do it for me.

I think that's all that need be said. Though you didn't enjoy them as much as we'd hoped, we all very much appreciate the feedback. I also hope that, if we bring webisodes back in S5 revamped and reworked, we haven't dragged every last ounce of faith in us you had.

That said, I will stand by the work we all put into them, and I'm proud of how the webisodes turned out. Thanks for reading!

Dino · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2009, 08:45:58 AM »

Quote from: Alden on March 31, 2009, 04:19:48 AM

I think that's all that need be said. Though you didn't enjoy them as much as we'd hoped, we all very much appreciate the feedback. I also hope that, if we bring webisodes back in S5 revamped and reworked, we haven't dragged every last ounce of faith in us you had. That said, I will stand by the work we all put into them, and I'm proud of how the webisodes turned out. Thanks for reading!

Good luck. I look forward to the Season 5 ones.

Raul Bloodworth · « **Reply #8 on:** April 01, 2009, 07:29:01 AM »

My review of Slayer Academy's best season so far:

(click to show/hide)

Fhithich · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2009, 08:11:21 PM »

Could anyone tell me where the song "Eyes of the World" (4x22) on the s4 multimedia page is from?

Monster Zero · « **Reply #10 on:** April 05, 2009, 11:54:22 AM »

Quote from: Ravenheart on April 04, 2009, 08:11:21 PM

Could anyone tell me where the song "Eyes of the World" (4x22) on the s4 multimedia page is from?

It's 'Doomsday,' track 27 from the first BBC Doctor Who soundtrack album.

Fhithich · « **Reply #11 on:** April 05, 2009, 02:42:41 PM »

Ah, great. Thanks!

Alden Caele · « **Reply #12 on:** May 30, 2009, 03:41:04 PM »

New SA-related material won't be debuting until July, but that doesn't mean SA has to go radio-silent. A few months on from the close of Slayer Academy's fourth season, I'm wondering what everyone thinks of the season in general. The villains, the good guys, the characters arcs. Paths not taken, mistakes made, great characters, bad characters...

What did you guys think about season four? How did it stack up to 1/2/3?

Monster Zero · « **Reply #13 on:** May 30, 2009, 04:18:35 PM »

And while I remember, the website 9and this forum) will be updated with details of Season Five on Tuesday!

Alden Caele · « **Reply #14 on:** May 30, 2009, 04:32:55 PM »

Yes! Trust me, guys, S5 is gonna blow your mind. Things that have been in motion for, oh I don't know, five years will start coming to a head.

Alden Caele · « **Reply #15 on:** June 09, 2009, 03:38:45 PM »

During the season proper, almost all of discussion was based around individual episode reviews. We love that, because every writer loves getting a chance to see how their work effects the readers. But, BUT, there's also another way to view a season: as a whole, 4x01-4x22. In a way that's just as rewarding, because you guys probably have plenty to say about the season as a whole after its ended. And that's something I wanna see if we can kickstart, so you guys can get more of your views out without restricting them to ep-by-ep summaries.

So, what would people like to talk about, when it comes to SA S4? Villains, plot arcs, characters? That surprise ending? For this first week of the Slayer Academy Fan Chat Initiative (SAFCI? SAFCI!), I've come with a couple pre-planned topics for people to chew on for now, but feel free to jump in with your own...

Topic One: Skye Underwood in Slayer Academy S4. In this season, we see human Skye for the first time since the opening of Buffy 8x16, 'A Simple Day in Hell'. How do you feel about Skye's story and relationships with other characters this season? Her relationship with the returned Sofia, perhaps, or her strong relationship with Erika (and how that turned out)? What do you want to see going on for her next season? It's Skye week, people!

Topic Two: The Slayer Underclass. How do you feel about the minor Slayers who have been popping up in the background of the show? Are they enjoyable characters in their own right, an alright bit of continuity, or merely a distraction? How do you feel about the ascension of characters like Erika, Reiko, Anna and Fran from minor characters to major ones? What do you think are the major strengths and fumbles of this style of using the minor Slayers?

Feel free to talk about these, or throw in topics of your own.

Fhithich · « **Reply #16 on:** June 10, 2009, 04:48:58 PM »

About the underclass slayers; I think sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Erika and Reiko are firm fan favourites. Anna, however, wasn't really liked and probably wouldn't have been missed if she'd never become prominent. As both a fan and a writer of the show I've always stuck by my belief that these girls help to flesh out the academy. It never made sense to me that only Sofia, Skye etc went on "high-profile" missions, even if they are the A Squad. Slayers like Buffy and Faith were doing some major damage in their first few years of being slayers, why would these girls be any different just because there are more of them? If you think about it, these girls should be getting superior training and doing some serious slaying.

Obviously though, it wouldn't really work to focus on every single girl in the academy for the sake of logic; I enjoy reading about the lesser slayers, but if one who isn't relevant/isn't very interesting is pushed to the foreground too often it can grate. I just like the occasional mention that there ARE other slayers in the academy that we can recognize by name, and if they start to evolve naturally over time into more prominent characters (Reiko, Erika, Fran) then that's a bonus.

Alden Caele · « **Reply #17 on:** June 12, 2009, 02:04:54 AM »

Great addition to the discussion, Li.

Anyone else have thoughts?

ChrisH · « **Reply #18 on:** June 12, 2009, 04:41:51 PM »

SKYE: The character's come pretty much in a nice full emotional circle - from terrified Slayer turned vampire, to hero and Academy girl to murder suspect before winning past trust and becoming 'the new Sofia' in terms of leadership.
Skye herself has always been a fan favourite and I suspect always be, partially due to the uniqueness of the character and her general kick-ass dialogue and character fleshing-out-ness. In S4, I really enjoyed how she blossomed from a girl who by the First's admission had been 'selfish' in taking her own humanity back to someone who realises that her actions have consequences and that she's really matured this season. Especially after Erika's arc this season, she's been forced to mature and deal with the hard blows.
With Erika this year, Skye would obviously be the major one affected by her choices and her whole relationship with her (I think there was even at one vague point some mention of a mild sexual relationship eventually developing between them, but alas to no avail) has been a great one to explore one over the years, especially with their emotional baggage being shouldered and being shown true friendship.

THE UNDERCLASS: I really enjoy always reading the stories and 'mini-mini arcs' about the other Academy girls. It did seem for a while as though it was just A and B Squad living in the big ole Academy - but with the introduction of Anna and Fran and then Tsula, Juanita and Reiko, we began to see the girls who didn't necessarily kill the bad guy and stop the world from ending alone. A lot of the smaller Slayers, like Claire, Tia, Neela, Mei and Fran do help to fill out the spaces and provide a lot of interesting characters and plots for the main girls whilst making it fun for the fans to read as well.
As a Slayer Academy producer since the start of Season Three, I've really enjoyed watching characters such as Reiko and Tsula come into prominence and become key parts of the mythology. Fran, a character I didn't initially like, came to grow on me and she's truly earned her status as an Academy alumn.
I do share sentiments with Li though. Although I never actively participated in the forums at the time, I never read a lot of positive feedback on the part of Anna - but then again, characters who become traitors to their friends never really do - but most of the girls and supporting characters do work and have integrated well to flesh out the Academy.

Michael Jay · « **Reply #19 on:** June 16, 2009, 09:38:23 PM »

::Initially posted this in the wrong thread::

The Underclass

Having been the biggest detractor for all the new characters, I guess I should weigh in.

It wasn't really the abundance of characters that was a massive turnoff. It was devoting entire episodes to their origins and/or introductions to the Academy (which by and large weren't too interesting to begin with) and not really helping them to find their niche.

In most shows, even those with large casts, every character has a niche or a role their fill (the heart, the spirit, the leader, etc.), but after awhile, because there was such a push to try to bring everyone on A or B level status instead of letting people settle in natural roles (Erika is the PERFECT example of a character naturally settling in), it got to the point where the names were more or less interchangeable. Aside from the characters that were around when the show started (Sofia, Skye, Alita, Frankie, & Greg) and arguably Delaney, by mid season four when I stopped reading, the plots were so cookie cutter that you could literally swap one slayer for another and not hurt the story at all.

It honestly felt like a staff member would get an idea for a character and come up with a story to shoe horn them in when it didn't fit. Given the size of SA's staff, something like that could RAPIDLY get out of hand. Putting squares into circular holes never works, if you will.

I understand the principle behind having more names and faces than just your core characters, but this constant push to make every character that had a name a major player in the series ruined the show for me. The show got too bloated for its own good, but the narrative never grew or expanded with it. This is a show about a school full of Slayers, but in the 78 out of 88 episodes I read, you never learned anything more about the Slayer mythos. Just a bunch of girls with super powers. That's terribly uninteresting to me. More like a Saturday morning cartoon than a serious Whedon show.

I'm not opposed to a ton of characters as long as everyone has a role they play. At best, a fourth of the Slayers introduced that I read had a niche to fill. Everyone else was just there for palette swap storytelling and when their roles were unjustly expanded for no real reason other than trying to give them a bigger role (Debbie, Anna), it failed miserably.

Erika's the best regular this show's created that wasn't there when it started and 99% of that is due to how she wasn't shoved into major stories unnecessarily. Almost everything she did made sense for the character. Sadly, you can't say that for most of the other girls. It's more down to weak, sloppy execution than anything else.

I'll have to think a bit on Skye.